Two kinds of Catholics?
Incredibly Selfish? That is a new one. If God forbids abortion and gay marriage, then God is selfish. And so what if He is? Is following His Will not a worthy undertaking no matter how difficult? Is it not possible that He knows betterand that by our acceptance and allowing of abortion and gay marriage we will face consequences which will lead us to unhappiness and pain? If you feel this way then why is it okay for abortion on demand and gay marriage to be forced down my throat? And yes, if it is, it will have an affect on me and my family and society as a whole.It is easy to recognize the origins of the current divisiveness of the Catholic Church today. On one side are the people whose primary concern is what you are NOT allowed to do, or what constitutes a sin, in Catholicism. Things such as abortion, gay marriage, and the like are forbidden for these people and, by extension, should be forbidden for society at large as well. This viewpoint is INCREDIBLY SELFISH and it is impossible to understand how someone that falls on this side of the line could call him/herself "compassionate".
On the other hand, there are the Catholics whose primary concern is what IS possible in Catholicism. Things such as working to provide opportunities to those who do not have them (both inside the US and outside), supporting people who have to make traumatic life decisions through prayer and discovery of conscience rather than mandating a path...these are examples of the concerns driving this second type of Catholic. These are people who have moved on from judgments they have no basis making, people that truly are "compassionate".
Catholicism is changing. It is moving away from a world in which beliefs are handed down to a model in which we, the people of thechurch, have the power and the responsibility to make our own decisions on what is right and wrong based on our morals and our relationship with God. Our role as Catholics is to help others build a relationship too, through our kind acts, our support, and ourc ompassion, not to force our individual values down other people'sthroats. That is not the way to a better world.
Clearly this will fall on deaf ears. Conservatives tend to have their minds already made up, which is part of the problem. But not everything is black and white...right and wrong is not always so easily able to discern. I urge you to step back and take another look at yourselves, your religion, and your president.
I agree there are divisions inCatholicism, but I do not think the groups you describe fairly represent these divisions. If you really are suggesting that those of us here in this forum do not work to provide opportunities to those who do not have them or fail to support those working through traumatic life decisions, then you are very much mistaken. As well, to imply we do not pray and discern is to not know us. Spend some time with us and find out for yourself. Or is your mind "already made up"? We do not judge, God does. But our Lord does tell us in Matthew(18:15-18) we should correct those who are sinning. And we do that in pointing out the actions of Senator Kerry and Kerry Catholics. If they fail to listen and be won over, then God will judge them, but we have a duty to try and correct.
Catholicism is not changing. There is a direct attempt by Kerry Catholics to change it to better fit what they want it to be instead of what God created for us. Yes, we make our own decisions about right and wrong and I am thankful I have the teachings of the Church to help me make those decisions. We help others through "kind acts" such as time volunteering, raising our children, taking care of our parents when they are older; we "support" the innocent still in the womb and those who are unwanted, (like Terry Schiavo), we show our compassion through our treatment of all men and women with dignity and respect, and we witness our values and yes, talk about them, even when they are not popular and accepted by others. Our Lord reminds us in scripture,"Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me." (Matthew 5:11) So we soldier on because He tells us we can make the world better.
Your words here willnot fall on deaf ears and they are likely to generate much response. We here at Catholics for Bush are respectful of others. We read and respond. We write about ourselves, our Faith and President Bush. Some of us even seen things differently since we started the forum. We see a vibrant Catholic faith and believe President Bush best represents our beliefs. Look at his recent addresses to the National Urban League and the Knights of Columbus and you will see a man who supports and believes what we and many other Catholics believe and hope for. I challenge you to look at Senator Kerry and his support for abortion on demand, embryonic stem cell research, same-sex marriage and more, and not see someone who fails to bridge his Catholic faith and his political positions. No one has convinced us, and they have tried, that it is the other way around with Senator Kerry.
posted by David at 6:51 PM
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Deaf ears? Hardly. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will know that abandoning the law is not the answer at all. Judging means seeing the sinner in a light of their sinfulness rather than in the light of their image as a child of God. Christ's (and the Church's)message to us to "love one another as I have loved you" remains the same today as it was the moment Christ uttered it. We are called to condemn sin, to strive for holiness, and to love one another *despite* our likes and dislikes. It is extremely difficult, without effort and without practice, to differ between the sinner and the sinfulness of the sinner - but with a heart oriented by the Church's teaching it is, as are all things with God, possible.
The Catholic Church, thanks be to God, is not changing and, as we are assured by Christ Himself, will stand even against the gates of Hell.
Hiya.
George W. Bush prosecuted an unnecessary war predicated on half-truths, baseless assumptions, and fearmongering. This president, who runs about proclaiming his love for Jesus, has sacrificed our children on the altar of his ego.
Kerry supports abortion. True that.
He does not support gay marriage (though I do), nor does he support embryonic stem cell research. He once did, but technology now exists to mine these cells from other sources.
Anyhoo...didn't intend to troll tonight, but you know how these things happen.
I appreciate your use of your constitutional right to free speech. Now just get on the right side of the war issue, ok?
Perhaps the drive-by poster was stating that many people tend to condemn the sinner more than the sin. Sure, who wants to get an abortion? Not me. But how many catholic families would willing allow their raped daughter to conceive an illegitimate child that might have genetic deformities? For that matter, the bible clearly states that one should never blow their spunk other than into their married wife. This must also mean that one cannot blow their spunk into a test tube for invitro- I don't see too many protestors outside family conception clinics.
Doesn't the bible condemn many more things with equal fervor than just abortion and gay marriages? But alas, we only hear about these things, and surprisingly only in election years. How convenient for the RNC and their dullard constituency.
It is real easy guys. The abortion is always considered more evil than war. The Holy Father is not happy about the war, but then again he never is. I don't know how many people have been killed in Iraq, but I can assure you that it is less then the 45 million Plus babies that have been murdered since 1973. Catholics for Bush, Indiana for Bush
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